Show Introduction

0:00

Welcome to the Healthy Brain Toolbox. I'm Dr. Ken Sharlin, neurologist, and host for this show. In each episode, I interview influential people whose work impacts how we live and how we think. My guests are leaders in the health and fitness industry, physicians, scientists. Here, you'll find conversations that break down barriers, expand your horizons, and give you the tools you need to protect your health and nourish your aging brain.

Meet Michael Ponce

Dr. Ken Sharlin 0:30

Welcome to the Healthy Brain Toolbox. I'm your host, Dr. Ken Sharlin, and today's guest is Michael Ponce. Now, met Michael a few years ago and we crossed paths frequently, either in the clinic or at trade shows he works presently for a company called NuMedica, and they are a supplier of high-end nutraceutical quality supplements. And is a very interesting background. The topic of supplements is so important and I think you're gonna find that there's misinformation, there is lack of information at times. Our goal over the next, 45 minutes to an hour is to bring a lot of clarity. I have patients that come to me and say, Should I take this? Is this good? Is this a good one? and I'm often responding with, make sure you are buying your products from a reputable company that does the appropriate analysis so that you're sure that you're getting what you're buying and then I often will recommend that rather than use many products just empirically, meaning is this good for me? That kind of thing, that we do a lot of measurement and figure out what your needs actually are. But I think we're gonna go in some different directions. I've talked long enough. Michael, thank you so much for being on the Healthy Brain Toolbox.

Why Supplement Quality Matters

Contaminants and Heavy Metals

Michael Ponce 2:02

Welcome, Dr. Sharlin. The supplement industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, and the question is, what am I taking? Is it for me? And is it safe? A little bit about my background. My background is in molecular science. I started off in the vaccine industry, moved into cancer biology and worked for a university hospital helping pathologists diagnosed different blood cancers. And then I moved into diagnostic sales, learned a lot about that industry and what other companies are doing when it comes to innovation. And then I moved on into supplements. So I've always been interested in health innovative technologies, and how do we optimize and improves ourselves for longevity purposes. So I've gathered a lot of information over the years and how different industries are achieving this. But then also commit across different things as far as what loopholes do they get through to get their point across. And so right now, yes, I'm in the supplement industry. I've been in this industry for a little over two years. And I myself have always taken a lot of different vitamins for multiple purposes. Whether it's because I'm trying to reach a certain level of health or trying to replenish something I've lost from a workout, right? So many different proteins, multivitamins, maybe some things to increase memory. So getting into the supplement world and learning about manufacturing and distribution and marketing I began to question practices from other companies of, Hey, what does it mean to have the ideal product? You open up anyone's medicine cabinet or pantry, find a plethora of different brands and different vitamins that people might take from day to day. What really differentiates one from another. And so I think these are questions that. Everyone should ask not just practitioners, but people who are consuming them. I really think there was a report that was released last year by Consumer Reports, They looked at about 15 different companies that provide proteins and they tested them for heavy metals particularly lead, cadmium, and inorganic arsenic. And they found that a lot of these compounded proteins contained an excess amount of lead. Some of them had an excess amount of cadmium and inorganic arsenic. Those particular metals can really set an individual backwards, especially when you're trying to have them achieve a certain goal in life. Whether it's improving cognition, improving memory or improving general health And you have somebody who has poor health and then you have them taking, a supplement to improve that issue, but then they are tainted or they have excess properties in them you're then fighting fire with fire and taking longer for those patients to reach their goal. It's has nothing to do with the provider, it's just that there's not enough education out there to have people ask these questions. Is this a clean product? you tend to depend on the marketing of either an individual or a company stating that this is safe. there are organizations out there that do put these checks and balances in place that will ensure you have safety when you're taking these supplements, but it's up to the consumer to know what to look for and what providers need to be educated to and what to look for.

From Sourcing to Testing

Dr. Ken Sharlin 5:46

I wonder if we go back to the journey of the product itself like many supplement brands, high-end supplement brands, they may provide the encapsulation process, but the raw materials used to make that product not necessarily produced by that supplement company. So I wonder if you can walk that journey where does the raw material start? and is it tested at different stages along the way?

Michael Ponce 6:19

There are a lot of manufacturers out there that allow certain ingredients to be purchased then can be compounded into, a capsule or a tablet or even powder. So when it comes to sourcing, they have these huge trade shows throughout the nation, around the world for these companies to introduce a particular ingredient. And they talk about sourcing, right? So people might take green tea, right? For example, green tea can be sourced here in the United States or can be sourced overseas, right? or American ginseng and Chinese ginseng, right? One can be sourced here in the United States. One can be sourced in China. they all have different levels of potency. Depending on the goal of the particular formula, you wanna make sure you're gathering this information when it comes to how potent that particular ingredient is. So yes, there are conversations about potency and there are also some questions that get left out when it comes to environmentally sourcing. I think it's important to source ingredients from American manufacturers because we do have more environmentally protective statues in place when it comes to farming, right? A lot of these supplements have different herbal components. When you grow anything in the ground, depending on what industrial complex was in that particular area, and irrigation wise, this particular herb or whatever source it is, could have some runoff that will contain things like lead or inorganic, arsenic or cadmium in it, especially if there was maybe a paint manufacturer. In the early fifties they could use those products in paint that particular site was not cleaned up appropriately and you have a farm next to that site that's growing these herbal components that then are putting these supplements. We had the EPA has things in place where, hey, you cannot source these items for human conception. You must move this farm somewhere else. So that's the important thing about sourcing ingredients here in United States. Now, if you're sourcing things, in China, unfortunately those ethics are not necessarily there. You're running the risk of getting a supplement that might have these inorganic properties in them or could be having a component that could be harmful for human consumption. Say you're developing a product and you are sourcing from China there are third party testing facilities that you should be using to make sure that these levels are following, FDA guidelines for human safety. Not all companies, are following this rule when it comes to third party testing. So when I tell patients or clinicians what to look out for, you wanna make sure that there is some sort of third party testing involved into whatever company you're using you can go on Google and say, is XYZ company, third party tested? AI can break it down and say, actually yes, they're a part of, the National Sanitation Foundation and they use third party testing methods to ensure your safety. After speaking to a lot of other supplement companies I realized not a lot of people follow those guidelines which is unfortunate. It does cost money to be a part of these organizations. But it is a number one rule in my opinion, that they must be a part of these organizations if they're selling supplements sourcing is really important because you wanna make sure that these supplements are being sourced from a reputable company that has guidelines in place that protect these herbal ingredients.

Third Party Seals Explained

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Dr. Ken Sharlin 12:04

Because I know that when we're talking about this in my clinic, you pointed out that if you look on the bottle, or the manufacturer's catalog, They're gonna actually have these logos. So what would they actually look for?

Do Labels Match Contents

Michael Ponce 12:21

There are certified seals that you would see on any kind of published document that is official that say, Hey, this is third party tested or CG and P quality. It's a good manufacturing practice seal. When I'm in a drugstore, I look at bottles and I turn them around and I look at them,'cause there's certain guidelines that companies are supposed to follow when it comes to ingredients and distributor information and whatnot because I've been doing this for some time, if I look at a label, I can say, Ooh, this is within guidelines, or there's somebody who's not checking whether this is done appropriately. that's a red flag. there are official seals of certification. because this supplement world can be unregulated at times, there are companies that design these third party approval seals that make it look like the official ones, but they are not. I'm more than welcome to shoot you over a group of them that can show your audience, what to look for, to know that this is indeed third party tested and within federal guidelines, and then what not to look for. I think that's really important because you have companies out there that are saying that they are following the guidelines of good manufacturing practices, but they're not actually certified by the GMP process. And those are two different things. So it's saying yes, what I'm making in my restaurant is quality food. But I don't have a food handling license, but I'm following all the rules to be compliant. Clancy labels, they're not certified labels. And that is a red flag when it comes to purchasing any kind of supplement or anything that you're consuming in general.

Dr. Ken Sharlin 14:22

There's another dimension of to this that I think folks should be aware of. I have not personally gone into these third party labs, there is a company, it's called Consumer Lab or consumerlab.com. I always explain to folks is much like consumer reports, but they tend to be focused on the supplement industry. And they will say, let's say they're gonna they're interested in a given week in turmeric products, or turmeric. They'll buy 30, 40 different products from different manufacturers, different brands, test them for contaminants, if you buy a product, let's say it says 500 milligrams per capsule, does it actually have 500 milligrams? It's shocking when you start to look at that data. this does not single out any one company. This is across the board. Of course you'll have best choice, worst choice, how many, per milligram or pennies per milligram, things like that.'cause it'll say, look, this has the right amount. The price is this. If you buy this product, you're really getting what you paid for But I thought it was interesting that not only do we have to worry about these contaminants, we have to worry about are we actually buying what we think we're buying?

Big Box vs Practitioner Brands

Michael Ponce 15:39

And when you mention that to consumers the amount of time that I meet with people on a daily basis, when I bring that up, the fire in their eyes especially when you're talking directly to the patient they can't believe it because for them, they're saying, I want to trust an industry enough to, if I give them an X amount of dollars, I am then receiving a product that I've paid for. We have to go into detail and say, you're getting up to 50% of this vitamin or mineral or herb because the rest is a filler And the company does reporting and analysis, putting percentages of saying, this is, top 20, this one has a daily limit of how often you should take it due to toxicity or you have this particular percentage of this X amount of what you're trying to consume in this product, or less or more. And they do a great job breaking that down. And that's a very good point because even as a clinician, if you are treating somebody for vitamin D deficiency, which is common in the United States and you want to get somebody to a particular number and you're reading a bottle and you say, oh, there's 10,000 I use of vitamin D here. You know how often they should take it, how long they should be on it until you're going to test their levels. Now, when you talk to other clinicians where they look at these labs and they're thinking, I've had this client on this product for six months, and it's not moving the needle. What is the problem? The problem is you actually don't have 10,000 IUs in that product. You have much less. And because of that, you should be double the dosing and probably increasing the amount of vitamin D that they're taking for that brand. And then move forward and you will see the difference. And that's why it's important to have laboratory. Diagnostics in your practice so you can test against these supplements because as clinicians you are gathering the raw data as well.

Dr. Ken Sharlin 17:40

We sometimes use this term nutraceutical. It's a way to pretty up the word supplement. It's taken from pharmaceutical. But the idea that as a neurologist, as a functional medicine and regenerative medicine trained provider, I want to make sure that my patients are using supplements of the highest possible quality. There's sort of the implication in the word nutraceutical, that it's a higher quality physician grade, But on the other hand it's easy to go to the big box store where they sell. much less expensive product and from a purely sales perspective, we sometimes gravitate, Hey why would I spend twice as much for this when I can get the same thing, right? For half the price? this discussion encompasses what we've already discussed, But I still wanna bring some attention to what do I get if I go to the big box store versus what do I get if I go to a boutique brand. I know some of the brands are large and some of them have been acquired by, corporate America. You don't know that you're actually. taking something that is owned by Nestle or whatever, but still there's an, whether it's NuMedica, whether it's worth molecular products, thorn, and again, there are many good companies out there, But how do I wrap my head around idea of why not go to the big box store?

FDA Rules and Claims

Michael Ponce 19:15

I believe if you're taking a supplement to achieve a goal, it should be under the care of a physician. Because it's a physician's responsibility, and as a physician, you should be providing the best care possible for your clients. I'm a big advocate of if you're buying a supplement, it needs to be through a provider because of the lack of regulation in the supplement space. And to what you said, there are these boutique level of supplement branding that is out there that has a large dollar amount and unfortunately. Some of these big boutique ones are in different quality as well, and they have a large dollar amount on them. But it's up to the practitioner and the consumer to ask questions. And when it comes to these big box organizations they don't vet whether there are contaminants and whether we should be selling this product to consumers. They don't check that they're there to sell it, unfortunately. And that consumer report that mentioned with 15 different products those were purchased from these big box entities. And these direct to consumer online nutraceutical companies the big jungle one. They were purchased through them. And they still contained all of these contaminants. So that dollar amount is very enticing. I want to spend$5 because that's all I have in my bank account, which I totally understand. Any vitamin is important to take. It's better than taking none at all. I agree with that 100%. But we have a new threat in place and that is contaminants when it comes to mold, bacteria and heavy metals. And when it comes to consuming those you're gonna wanna buy a higher quality supplement that is third party tested, FDA regulated to ensure that those levels are safe for human consumption. I'm going to say it again, those larger direct to consumer companies that are big box are not vetting these companies that they're putting on the shelves. people are getting sicker. it's upsetting because you are taking something that you think is beneficial for your health, as you start filling that toxic load unknowingly, you're going to encounter issues later on. So my big message is to purchase your supplements through a provider if possible. I hope that the provider that you are working with is using a quality product that is third party tested FDA regulated if possible. You will hear a company saying that the FDA has nothing to do with supplements. That's not true. In the early 2000s they developed a bio-terrorism act that they asked supplement companies to be a part of to ensure that it's safe. That is also involved with the NSF which is another third party organization that's important to be a part of because they also ensure testing involved when it comes to additives and whatnot. Label claims is important because unfortunately a lot of these over the counter products, that you buy, says you might have 300 milligrams of something and then you go and you test it and it actually shows a hundred, 150. If they're not a part of these organizations, they're still able to put on the label that they have 300 when they don't. They don't adjust the price point when you are dealing with a company that is compliant with all the organizations that I mentioned. It is true that what is on the label is there. And you can assure that every dollar that you are spending is going direct to that product and you are consuming all of it and it is being used.

Dr. Ken Sharlin 23:15

You've brought up FDA couple of times, FDA compliant. I just think it's worth stating for folks'cause because of the type of practice that I have, it's not uncommon for someone to make an appointment and they say. I really don't like taking medication. I want you to treat me quote unquote naturally, and it's a very common thing for someone to say. I get a little lost in what that actually means. But in pharmaceuticals, there are indications, so if you take Semaglutide, also known as Ozempic, it is indicated for type 2 diabetes. It's indicated for weight loss so that the manufacturer, the owner of that product, can say, it is proven to treat this condition. To my knowledge, there's not a single supplement if you look at what is, what's in that brand that are actually FDA approved for treatment of a disease, there's a brand of fish oil that was approved for cardiovascular indication, through the appropriate clinical trials. Your doctor could say, Hey, if you look at the ingredient, it's just this, and this. You can go out and take anything else but know that only that brand has that indication. And I think that's potentially very confusing for folks to say there is no supplement for the most part. That is a proven treatment for disease under the definition that would be given by the FDA.

COAs and Transparency

Michael Ponce 25:00

And as a supplement company, they have to be very careful with the verbiage when it comes to treating chronic and acute diseases. There's a lot of things that you don't say and there's a lot of things that you can say indirectly the FDA, it's a love hate relationship with the FDA, But one of their main jobs is to ensure that, we are all safe when it comes to consuming, meat, dairy, poultry, all of those particular products. Anything that we are consuming. And then they have a whole separate organization that deals with pharmaceuticals and those kind of regulations as well. You'll hear this term, there is no such thing as a pharmaceutical grade supplement, no such thing. When it become, when it's a pharmaceutical and supplement. Those are two different words. Two different subjects all have the same goal, right? When it comes to supplements. A lot of times we are looking to treat in a more natural way depending on the particular formula, but the ultimate goal there is to have a patient. Say, Hey, we can possibly get off this statin if we just change some dietary components, right? By using these particular supplements. We're not going to call it a pharmaceutical grade supplement. Can it achieve this goal? Yes. But those two terms for pharmaceutical and supplements do not come hand in hand. The FDA is in place for the supplement industry to ensure that they are staying within guidelines and compliancy If there's a company that is making a claim that they have a product that can treat something topically and might have a subdermal type of delivery system to the FDA, that is considered. Now a pharmaceutical drug. And those companies might get some letters to say that, you cannot have this particular product if you are not registered under this pharmaceutical compliancy law, which is a whole another budget for companies a lot of times I feel like supplement companies want to differentiate themselves from pharmaceuticals. Pharmaceuticals are in place there to save lives. As you mentioned, GLP ones, they're great. Are they helping people lose weight? Correct. Are they the long-term answer? I don't believe so. But there are supplements that can. Coexist and work synergistically with a GLP one to ensure that the nutrition that needs to be delivered while they are on these medications is in fact helping them in the long term. Not to FlipFlop to a different kind of subject, but when it comes to pharmaceuticals and supplements working together, is that possible? Yes. Should it be done? I believe so. There are a lot of pharmaceuticals out there that prevent the absorption of certain minerals and vitamins and you should be supplementing to fill those voids. But they're there to help us and I'm thankful for them, But when it comes to optimizing your health. I don't agree that certain things need to be in place long term. I think they can be removed from a lot of individual usage and that's where supplement companies can be very powerful and in your practice can be very beneficial for individuals if used correctly. The subject matter here is whether or not you are indeed getting what you are taking and is it safe for you to consume? Whatever industry you are providing in a clinic, if you are using an imaging system, if you're using diagnostics, using supplements, anything to help treat your patient to have them live a better life. Do we have validations? How long has this technology been around? Is there anything newer? What is the sensitivity on this product? can it find those issues that I'm looking for in an accurate way? Is this supplement safe? Is it tested? If you hear someone say, yes, the supplement is tested. When a manufacturer sends us the product for compounding, they have to send a COA document, a certificate of analysis. But there are companies that test against that certificate and have found discrepancies. So it's unfortunate, but it happens all the time. And that's why it's important for whatever company you are utilizing to make sure that they have that appropriate testing in place.

Requesting COA Proof

Compliance Seals Explained

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Marketing Claims Decoded

Dr. Ken Sharlin 31:27

I told you a story and I won't name the brand specifically but I had an associate who was very good with marketing and relationships, and she forged a relationship between company that makes a, it's technically probably you would call it like a a medical food, but many people know, and I just wanna say a brand as an analogy, it is this brand like such as AG one, these super green type products not that brand, though it had a lot of good stuff in it, she was able to place it in hospitals. that's a large distribution. And then it has to go through various committees, pharmacy committees and things like that. And they said, we need the data safety sheet. And this company would go silent. They would not provide the data safety sheet and like a house of cards. The whole thing collapsed This company was not following. Now I'm not saying that their product wasn't clean, wasn't tested. I don't know. The problem is there was a lack of clarity with the data safety sheet, and that was pulled from all of these hospitals. So it can happen on big scale.

Michael Ponce 32:42

I'm all for, we live in the United States, we have the ability to develop something ourselves, and if it works, and we're able to provide it to large communities, right? Especially when it comes to our health. And that's the beautiful thing about our country is that we're able to do that. Any person's able to do this When it comes to testing, I understand alpha beta testing, things are expensive when it comes to product launches, compliancy. Being an open book is the best thing anyone can have. You wanna gain trust. Sure, come look at all my files, come look at everything that I have for this particular product. We wanna ensure that there's all of the safety guidelines in place for you to utilize and pass out. And for all the listeners here, you can request that to any company. If you're using a company right now, email them their little info at whatever, whatever, whatever.com and whoever you get, say hello. Hi, I'm looking for a COA document for this particular product. Can you please provide it? And if you never receive it, or if you try multiple times,'cause obviously these are larger companies too, they might not have the capacity to answer right away. But if you never receive it, I would advise to stop taking it. I have a provider call me or a family member call me and say, Hey, I was just giving this particular product. I know you talk about this. Can you grab me one? Absolutely. It's gonna take a phone call or an email. Can I get a COA and they'll shoot it over to me. And then you can literally see whether they have tested for glyphosate, whether they've tested for certain molds whether they've test tested for certain pseudonomas and bacteria. That's the importance if you are consuming it. So you want to know. But if they don't provide one, that is a red flag. And I'll talk a little bit about the NSF national Sanitation Foundation and the FDA they do want these distributors and manufacturers to be compliant when it comes to their paperwork. I call them kind of the men in black. They show up. To your manufacturing center or your distribution center, go through your documents. They might pick a handful of formulas. test them to make sure that they meet compliance. The good companies are doing their own testing in house and provide that paperwork to say, Hey, look, we did our own due diligence here to make sure that this is a clean product, and they love to see that. And then you get a seal of approval and you're able to put that up on your website or have your organization say, Hey, we have an a plus rating this year, And that's important to point out because they do give out those types of certificates and pledges of achievements to those organizations because they want them to be compliant. But like you said, if they cannot produce that. Certificate of analysis that is an issue.

Test Before You Take

Dr. Ken Sharlin 35:41

Maybe some quick fired off things for the folks who are listening or watching. We talk about being a good label reader, being a good consumer. That's really the biggest overriding theme of this entire interview and the confusion that can surround the role of a supplement when you're looking for solutions because you're affected by a specific diagnosis. Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, MS, ALS. These are the things I deal with as a neurologist. Only drugs, have specific FDA approved indications. That doesn't mean these products can't. Help in the situation, but there is specific language. I'm not saying, the language is intentionally deceptive. I just wanna make sure folks understand that the language used is deliberate. For example, AIDS supports helps, as opposed to treats. A lot of times, they're talking about a mechanism of action and, reduces inflammation rather than treat the disease. But I think we're overwhelmed on TV with supplements that. May well help a person maintain sharper, more resilient memory, that's not to be confused with treatment of Alzheimer's disease.

Michael Ponce 37:08

Unfortunately there are organizations out there that do still use those Bud Buzz words don't be overwhelmed if there's something that you come across, especially on TV now there's so much money being pushed into advertisements and you come across something that says improve health brain health or improve healthy brain aging? what does that mean? Always run this back to Dr. Sharlin or whoever you are seeing for primary care. Write it down and let them look at the particular formula to see if that's indeed what the goal is of that particular product. I come across things all the time that say, this is for enhanced memory and energy, and it's everywhere. I know people who take it. And then I look at the formula and I'm thinking to myself, because I have a molecular biology background I'm looking at these ingredients. This is gonna slow you down a bit. it's unfortunate that the marketing is saying it's going to help you achieve this because the consumer is eating this up and purchasing it by the case So anytime that you come across these buzz words, reduced inflammation could it do sure. But always run it back to your primary care physician or your specialist to make sure that you are getting what you paid for. Because I have found products that make these claims and there's nothing in there that is going to significantly impact inflammation or improve cognition or, prevent you from developing Alzheimer's supplements are not there to be the silver bullet. They're there to fill in the voids and to help you achieve that ultimate goal whatever that is between you and your provider. So I always tell the consumer, just go back to your doctor or whoever your provider is and ask them questions. And if they don't know, they can always call someone like me. Who is there to help provide the background information to make sure that everyone is secure and everyone understands what this all means because it's confusing.

Herbals Get Risky

Toxicity and Overdosing

Dr. Ken Sharlin 39:18

Most people, I'm sure 95% of folks using supplements are not actually having any laboratory testing to justify the need for that supplement. And that's gonna be primarily folks looking at vitamins, minerals, omega fatty acid. You can look at amino acid levels. And a couple of antioxidants say glutathione for example. It's not a vitamin, it's not a mineral, can have your glutathione levels checked, but then there's also a whole host of things that fall under this supplement umbrella that are herbal products, or they are mushroom. I think of Lion's Mane and Chaga and all that. I'm not gonna get a lion, a Lion's Mane blood level, but I might get a Vitamin D. We promote the idea that, you go back to the empirical observations made by Dan Butner and the Blue Zones can live past 100, the vast majority are not even taking supplements. Which that supplements are not important. I'll offer one big reason why in a moment, but to your point, that we're not going to simply create health with a supplement, which, by the way, of course the word means in addition to, and I always say in addition to food, but we at micronutrient levels in our clinic and people who are sick, some folks come to me looking for preventative brain health, say, I have a family history of Alzheimer's. When we start to look at these nutrient levels, it can be shocking. And of course, that boils down to a whole variety of factors. Individual food choices, organic versus nonorganic, nutrient density, and the food itself, soil, nutrient, depletion, contamination, So I would say even the best of us who are trying hard, are going to have some gaps. If you're looking to optimize and you understand that every nutrient, every micronutrient, that includes phytonutrients, phyto means plant. And the reason I'm bringing this up is'cause this craze over carnivore diet. But if I said, there are three micronutrient classes and we benefit from all three, and if you're. On a carnivore diet, you are starving your body of a micronutrient class, i'm making an argument that from the point of view of what we can measure, it's worthwhile having those measurements made. It's worthwhile meeting with a dietician who's more oriented toward functional and functional nutrition. Doesn't have to be a licensed dietician, it could be a therapy practitioner, but make sure that the knowledge and experience is really there. Get your diet, get this stuff dialed in and figure out your gaps and fill those gaps. Now, herbals. that's a little murkier. I'm not saying it's inappropriate. Certainly we're, familiar with things that, calm the body and the brain. We often refer to the adrenals, but it's really just the brain sending signals to the adrenal glands to reduce stress Because that narrative is part of a bigger picture of understanding the chronic stress response. In some cases when the body and the brain have been in that cycle for a long time. A natural response is to restore some sort of balance to more or less shut things down. That's the work of Cellier and others. But my point is that, as there are different types of adrenal support supplements out there. And if you're in that adrenal exhaustion phase, maybe you do need something that actually raises cortisol levels a little bit. But on the other hand, if you're in a hyper cortisol state, the last thing you want to do is take somebody that's gonna raise your cortisol levels even further. Can buy this stuff without a prescription, and I may not know that's the wrong product for me.

Michael Ponce 43:25

You're correct. I do my own due diligence when I walk through these pharmaceutical aisles. Especially the more natural grocery stores where you can buy more of these herbal components at a medicinal level. if somebody is stuck in fight or flight and they're in this high cortisol situation and they take these herbal components that are powerful, I do know some that work really well with people. They can be doing more damage than good. the heavy metal content and the mold contents. Unfortunately with more of these herbal components, there is a higher chance of having those levels in there if you're not receiving the herbals from a very reputable company, or if they're not sourcing them from a source that is within EPA guidelines of as, tainted water, irrigation, waters of soil or whatnot. So it does get a little murkier when it comes to the herbal components. And that's why it takes a team, it takes a team of knowledge really, when it comes down to somebody walks into your clinic, saying. This is what I've been taking for the past six months. And then you look at their labs and you look at the person as a whole person and their symptoms and you're probably thinking to yourself, I just wish you would've come to me earlier. Yeah, because the direct to consumer market can get very murky.

Liver Support Warnings

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Functional Medicine Guidance

Dr. Ken Sharlin 46:23

The other part I want folks to be aware of is if a little is good, more must be better. There are some nutrients on the vitamin and mineral side, as well as on the herbal side that can be associated with toxicity. I think of vitamin B6, selenium, zinc, vitamin D, although you have to take an awful lot of it to get there. know what you're taking, know what your medical conditions are, know what your other medications are'cause there can be drug interactions. And understand that dosing can be very deliberate. And this may not be right for you because there's a tendency to take to name products, not for what they are, but for what the purport might do. It'll have 8 different ingredients. But what you don't know is this other product that you're taking as a different sort of broad name also has three or four of the same products in this product.

Michael Ponce 47:25

I think vitamin B toxicity is not talked about or discussed enough. people Google or might have been steered in the wrong direction when it comes to vitamin B, B3, B5, B12, all of them and what they actually do. They believe that taking more is better. it can cause a lot of damage. I'm not trying to give medical advice, but in the supplement world, we do see and I do speak with clinicians where this is an issue. And you have people that are taking. Seven to eight different supplements without the appropriate guidelines. And they are taking triple, quadruple the amount of a particular vitamin and is actually causing them to have symptoms More is not always better. Always go to your clinician and figure this out, especially when you're taking a lot of supplements at once. Vitamin D is a big one, especially now there are a lot of companies that have these enhanced absorption technologies. It might be more liposomal, it might be more of a ole based. Where the delivery system is indeed attaching to the cellular wall and then is being delivered directly to the cell. If you're taking an extensive amount, you can put yourself into levels of vitamin D that can be harmful. that's why it's important for you to check. Your labs to see where you are. Because there are things that you don't necessarily need to be taking all the time. And like you said, it comes down to your nutrient intake and your daily diet, right? Naturally we are supposed to be ingesting phytonutrients. We're supposed to be eating within the seasons because we're not supposed to be taking the same thing all the time. No one says, Hey, you need to eat a fatty steak every single day. That's not the way it works. We should be rotating our meals. So the same way is with supplements. Check with your doctor. See where you are with your laboratory markers. You sure you have a homocysteine level? We're gonna put you on some vitamins that's going to help reduce that. By taking more of it doesn't mean that it's going to get lower quicker. It doesn't mean that it's gonna solve the issue. You need to be under the guidance of a physician.

Dr. Ken Sharlin 49:39

There's some folks out there with some very serious liver disease. Some of these herbal supplements in particular have been found to be hepatotoxic. Be extremely careful it's like I have chronic hepatitis C, so maybe I need some liver support. If you already have chronic hepatitis C and then you're taking these herbal products, you may actually be doing yourself more harm than good.

Where to Learn More

Michael Ponce 50:04

Visceral fat and non-alcoholic fatty liver disease you're absolutely correct. There are a lot of liver support products out there. They had a liver support drink in your room. They had one in my room. I was very familiar with that company and had a see away from that particular company. this liver support product that they were having the entire hotel drink or try, definitely has a high mold content that no one is really talking about. I got to share that information at the conference. But if you're in a certain state of a chronic disease or ever an acute disease more is not helpful, can actually be harmful. that's why on our bottles we say take under the care of a provider because we don't want anyone just taking over the counter. Go to Dr. Sharlin, go to whoever you're seeing and say, is this right for me? And they can put you on a path so you can reach that goal.

Dr. Ken Sharlin 51:01

I just wanna put in a plug for functional medicine doctors whether you're a naturopath or a chiropractor. Unfortunately many of my colleagues in the MD space are not knowledgeable unless they have a personal interest in this. I had a lot of doctors simply say, don't waste your money. You're just peeing it out. There are folks who have knowledge and experience who can guide you and support you. in my clinic when I test people, I find astonishing imbalances, and this is root cause medicine, right? People wanna know, why did I get Parkinson's? It didn't just fall out of the sky. And yes, there are strong associations with environmental toxins. It has nothing to do necessarily with taking supplement. Are you being exposed to some of those toxins through the supplements you're taking That could be a problem. But work with folks who have the knowledge and experience to guide you because the process of aging is multifactorial. one of the things that drive aging is, chronic inflammation and oxidative stress, both of which can be mitigated to a degree through appropriate supplementation and diet.

Michael Ponce 52:19

Yep. And through diet, phytonutrients, I don't think enough of us get the polyphenols that we need to help reduce oxidative stress and to get rid of those free radicals that are, occurring in our body at all times. We can definitely take care of this through nutrition and what we have available in our produce section. And again, utilizing supplements to fill in those voids. But the medicine is in front of us. it is available to us. It's just up to us to do our own due diligence and to eat correctly and to exercise and then to get some of that knowledge about the future of our health. Preventative medicine, if you're in an area where you can see a functional doctor, whether it's an md, chiropractor, nutritionist, np or whatnot. Who is gonna show you a preventative measurement from a laboratory standpoint, especially genetics. Genetics in the past used to cost thousands of dollars to run. Now you can reduce that cost and get some helpful information if a practitioner is able to break that down for you and saying, Hey, you have a background of developing Parkinson's disease we actually have this particular allele that you have that says you are more of a disposition of getting this around this age. We have preventative measurements that can help, slow that down. So getting with the right doctor when it comes to functional medicine is very important and that's why I love having conversations like this and being in network with people who can provide a space to get this information out. Because functional medicine, even though It's a huge community, there are still a lot of people out there that are not aware of it. And it's conversations like this that help push that narrative forward. So I appreciate you having this platform, Dr. Sharlin for guests like myself to share what is happening out in this space.

Dr. Ken Sharlin 54:10

Great conversation with Michael Ponce with. NuMedica, N-U-M-E-D-I-C-A. Perfect time to bring our discussion to a close. Michael, if people wanna learn more about your company, and quite honestly to check you out, to make sure that you have those seals which I know you do, but how, where, what would they do or where would they go?

Michael Ponce 54:35

The easiest way to look for what a supplement should have when it comes to seals of approval, you can go to numedica.com or you can Google NuMedica Advance Nutrition and you scroll all the way down to the front page and you will see all of the seals of approval. And you should look for those seals when you're shopping and look at your bottles to see if they have any of the six that we have. If you have any questions, you're more than welcome to find me on LinkedIn.MichaelPonce. You can message me directly there if you have any questions. I'm an open book. I'm happy to answer any of them at the rate that I can when they come in on large amounts. I'm not here to prevent or treat or diagnose anything. I'm here simply as a resource for all practitioners and the community to ensure that their health and safety is not impeded by supplements that are being marketed heavily.

Dr. Ken Sharlin 55:27

That's another episode of the Healthy Brain Toolbox. Thank everyone for participating. Great conversation. Look forward to seeing you again soon.

COMMERCIAL BREAK 55:37

Hi everyone. Dr. Ken Sharlin here with the Healthy Brain Toolbox. I'd love to hear from you. If you have general questions about brain health, neurology, or the science of keeping your brain sharp. Send them to questions@healthybraintoolbox.com. I'll be reading your questions on the upcoming episodes. Please remember, these need to be general questions, can't answer personal medical questions, or provide individual medical advice. So if you've ever wondered about brain health strategies, lifestyle tips, new research, or the future of neuroscience, send those questions in. I look forward to hearing from you and who knows? You might even hear your question featured on the show. Thank you for tuning into the Healthy Brain Toolbox podcast. I hope today's conversation gave you new insights to protect and nourish your brain. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with anyone looking to take control of their health. Until next time, stay sharp and keep learning.